PSA/DNA Certifies Wrong Name?

To further explore why I urge every collector to become proficient in authenticating their own merchandise I came across this story.  

Does PSA/DNA Know Anything About Anything?

Does PSA/DNA Know Anything About Anything?

Posted on April 12, 2011 by autographsforsaledotcom

Okay, so in my last post I established that PSA/DNA doesn’t know anything about golf. In case you think that was an isolated instance where maybe one of the crack PSA/DNA “authenticators” had diarrhea and ran to the bathroom, allowing an intern to write the Letter of Authenticity containing three glaring mistakes, here are a few more examples of their utter incompetence:

PSA/DNA can’t tell the difference between the autograph of Oscar nominated actress Kate Hudson and O.J. Simpson house guest Kato Kaelin (this one courtesy ofAutographAlert.com):

PSA/DNA confuses Kate Hudson with Kato Kaelin

PSA/DNA isn’t aware that Jack Kemp, one of the greatest quarterbacks in AFL history and later Bob Dole’s running mate in the 1996 presidential campaign, used an autopen machine to sign his mail during the early 1990s. This fact is common knowledge among football autograph and card collectors, since Kemp even autopenned the “certified” autograph cards randomly inserted in the 1991 Pro Line football card set, and it’s been noted in the Beckett price guides since . . . 1991. But PSA/DNA went ahead and “authenticated” an autopenned Kemp autograph anyway:

Autopenned Jack Kemp autograph “authenticated” by PSA/DNA

And now I’ve just learned that PSA/DNA’s so-called baseball bat ”experts” are so dim-witted that they confused Sandy Alomar Sr. with Sandy Alomar Jr. twice on the same Letter of Authenticity (this one courtesy of Autograph News Live):

PSA/DNA confuses Sandy Alomar Jr and Sr TWICE on same LOA

I guess I have to ask, does anyone at PSA/DNA know ANYTHING about ANYTHING?

 

The Problem With Authentication

This is being re-blogged because we recentley submitted an autograph from our collection that we received IN PERSON from the celebrity and it came back as NOT AUTHENTIC so we thought we would re-post these articles below so everyone can see that what you are paying for is only an opinion, whether it be from us, JSA, PSA/DNA, or other company.

My opinion is research the item in question yourself, there is usally some very good examples of legitimate autographs out there and your best comparison is your own eye.  This is another reason we do not charge for our service, it is our opinion.  Why would I pay a company who in many cases is just plain wrong.

THE PROBLEM WITH PSA:

http://live.autographmagazine.com/forum/topics/psa-dna-do-they-really-know-what-their-doing

I sent an item to PSA/DNA to get a C.O.A. thinking it would help me sell my item and be worth more was I wrong!!! It came back with 9 items wrong with the autograph and was deemed fake.It cost me almost a$100 for nothing . I called them and told them they were wrong that I personally had the item signed by the sports athlete and I was standing right next to him,which is true. They told me since they were not present at the signing  it was their opinion that it was fake because it did not pass their test., and that what they give is only an opinion and it may not be the same as someone else s. I just want to know if anyone else had this happen to them?

Reply by Trapper9990 on June 23, 2012 at 7:11pm

Yeah it happens. Mike explained it pretty well i think. They do the best they can with the information they have. And sometimes it takes a while for them to get the newest examplars or the odd autographs. And they have to base their opinion off of the norm, so their are gonna be good items that get turned down. And that will be the case everywhere you go. Unless you hit up morales, gai, or a place that passes anything. But they really seem to do a good job for the most part and their cert does carry an increase in value. They are def not perfect but PSA, JSA and some others are helping to clean up the industry for sure,  so i guess we have to weigh the good they are doing to the bad, such as the case with your auto. It sucks  that it happened, but sometimes they dont know, and in those cases they fail it as well.

Reply by Rich Viola on June 23, 2012 at 9:15pm

Here’s the general problem with PSA:  They don’t have a stranglehold on every autograph out there, but they seem to sell that as being the case.  Honestly, I’m not sure what their area of expertise is supposed to be.

Keep in mind, some celebrities just have an awful scribble of a signature that you just can’t authenticate.  There are always rushed examples that, while authentic, won’t match up favorably with known examples signed in more ideal circumstances.  PSA isn’t going to be much help here.

But then, you see PSA sometimes bless off on something they can’t possibly deem authentic as a third party authenticator.  I’ve seen these two gems listed back to back from the same seller on ebay for a while now, and if PSA really authenticated them, I have no idea what they were thinking:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Bono-Vox-Signed-8×10-Color-Band-Photo-U2-PS…

http://www.ebay.com/itm/U2-BONO-SIGNED-8X10-PHOTO-PSA-COA-AUTOGRAPH…

THE PROBLEM WITH JSA

James Spence Authentication: Authenticating Memorabilia or Pushing An Agenda? JSA Fails Pieces They Already Certified As Authentic!

We have heard people in the autograph and memorabilia collecting community say that James Spence Authentication (JSA) will fail anything that has previously been certified by any other forensic examiner.We decided to put this assertion to the test, with an unusual twist. We had several pieces certified by JSA. We then had them certified by Christopher L. Morales, Forensic Document Examiner (Chris Morales). What would JSA do with the pieces that already had JSA certifications after they also had certifications from Chris Morales? Would JSA really fail pieces it had already certified?

Look at the results and you can decide for yourself what a JSA examination really amounts to.

The first item is a pair of boxing trunks signed by Joe Frazier (detail below).

The piece comes with a JSA sticker affixed to it, W54017. It states that Joe Frazier signed the piece in front of a JSA staff member. It is part of their “Witnessed Protection Program,” the highest guarantee JSA can give (below is the certification).

We showed the same piece to JSA again after it had been certified by Chris Morales. The only difference is now it has a hologram and certificate from Chris Morales (see below).

As seen, it is the same pair of boxing trunks. It has the same signature. What did JSA do with the piece?

That’s right, they failed it. JSA gave eight reasons to explain the flaws in the JSA “Witnessed Protection Program” piece of memorabilia. Apparently, the mere presence of Chris Morales’ certification has caused the JSA “Witnessed Protection Program” to grow atypical letter slant, angle and/or pitch. Did this problem occur when the JSA staff member witnessed the piece or afterwards?

Not only did JSA fail the piece, but Larry Studebaker, James Spence’s main authenticator, laughed out loud and said the piece was “f-ing horrible.” Really? A piece from JSA’s “Witnessed Protection Program”?

According to Larry Studebaker, James Spence himself personally checks all of the items before he issued a JSA certificate. James Spence did not overrule Larry Studebaker. According to JSA, their previously witnessed piece is now a forgery.

Did the irregular letter shape and/or formation occur when Joe Frazier signed the piece in front of the JSA staff member? Did it occur after JSA put its identifying sticker on the boxing trunks? Did it occur after Chris Morales certified it?

Just what does the “guaranteed to be authentic” on the original JSA certificate mean if JSA fails its own witnessed piece? How could this happen? Would it happen again?

The next piece is a Mickey Mantle jersey (below). Accompanied by a full JSA Letter of Authentication, it has JSA sticker number B35319.

Same test. Would we get the same results? Would JSA fail an item JSA had previously passed if Chris Morales passed it?

The answer is yes!!

This time, JSA found twelve reasons to fail the Mickey Mantle baseball jersey that had already been certified by JSA. Apparently, now the signature suffered from such problems as “Drawn slowly, Labored & contrived,” “Hesitation, tremors, patching, and/or pen lifts” and “Unusually positioned on item.”

When did these problems, and the other problems, creep into the signature? Before or after JSA issued its first certificate? After Chris Morales certified it? How did that change the signature?

It certainly seems that JSA was examining Chris Morales’ certificate more than the Mickey Mantle jersey the second time JSA looked at the same piece JSA had already certified as genuine. How is that a legitimate business act? Shouldn’t JSA actually be judging the signature instead of any other certificates? Is this fair to their customers?

Apparently, now that Chris Morales had certified the jersey, Larry Studebaker feels the signature “isn’t even close.”

Once again, when James Spence personally checked the item before he issued a certificate, he did not overrule Larry Studebaker. According to JSA, their previously certified piece is now a forgery.

Surely, JSA would not do it again, right? Surely JSA would base its reports on the merits of the memorabilia.

Wrong.

The next piece is a Paul McCartney World Tour booklet. Signed boldly by McCartney on the cover, it is accompanied by the full JSA Letter of Authentication, and has JSA sticker number B34513.

Once again, Chris Morales examined it, concurred with the initial JSA findings, and issued a certificate of authenticity.

Would that solitary piece of paper be enough to make sure JSA would no longer have faith in the piece, even though nothing has been done to the signature? The answer again, is yes.

Apparently, failing items certified by Chris Morales is more important than the validity of memorabilia, even if the same piece has previously been certified by JSA.

This time, there were twelve problems with the piece. Apparently, at some time between the first JSA certificate and Chris Morales’ certificate, the booklet developed, among other things, “Irregular letter slant, angle and/or pitch,” “Excessive pen pressure and/or improper shading,” “Sizing of letters Disproportionate/Exaggerated/Undersized,” and “Irregular letter shape and/or formation”.

According to the JSA examiner, he had personally obtained several signatures of Paul McCartney, and the signature on the booklet was “nothing like Paul McCartney’s signature. Chris Morales will pass anything.”

Didn’t the twelve issues that JSA observed after Chris Morales certified the booklet bother JSA when it originally certified the piece as genuine?

Once again, when James Spence personally checked the item before he issued a certificate, he stated that their previously certified piece is now a forgery.

In JSA’s original certificate reported that the signature on the booklet was consistent with JSA’s “extensive database of known exemplars.” Ironically, the JSA certificate passing the very item before Chris Morales certified it stated “The signature is consistent considering a wide range of specific qualities, including slant, flow, pen pressure, letter size and formation, and other characteristics typical of our extensive database of known exemplars we have examined throughout our hobby and professional careers”.

Four of the very reasons JSA used to praise the booklet when JSA originally passed it became reasons 1, 4, 6 and 12 when Chris Morales’ certificate seems to have caused JSA to fail the same piece.

Apparently, the problem is not limited to JSA’s “Witnessed Protection Program” and their full letters of authenticity, but their “Basic Cert” authentications, as well.

According to the JSA website, the only difference between the full certificate and the Basic Cert is the price. “Popular among dealers and collectors alike, the Basic Cert employs the same valued authentication process to verify lesser valued autographed items. Included with the Basic Cert program is a 3″ x 5″ James Spence Authentication registration card printed with a unique certification number corresponding to the alpha-numeric tamper evident label. Of course, similar to the Premium Letter of Authenticity each certification number is uploaded into our exclusive database for 24-hour customer verification access. All Basic Cert cards are fully transferable without resubmission.”

Unfortunately, if Chris Morales sees the piece, the “fully transferable” concept goes right out the window.

It certainly seems that JSA is likely to fail any piece that is attached to Chris Morales’ certificate.

The same seemed to be true of witnessed pieces.

Chris Morales certified this Upper Deck certified, witnessed piece. Tiger Woods signed the piece in front of Upper Deck’s certified witness program.

Unfortunately, if JSA gets the chance to turn down the Chris Morales certified piece, which is a clean, textbook example of Tiger Woods’ signature, JSA makes the most of the opportunity.

JSA even went so far as to list “C. Morales 7-18-08″ as the type in the descriptor box.

JSA listed twelve reasons for failing the Upper Deck witnessed piece. In fact, when the piece was examined, the JSA representative picked up Chris Morales’ certificate and stated “it’s amazing what this guy gets away with.”

Even worse, on JSA’s own website, it lists “Valued auction houses and dealers employing our services include”…you guessed it: Upper Deck. JSA failed his own client’s piece when it showed up with a Chris Morales certificate.

JSA proved consistent with another Upper Deck witnessed pieces. JSA’s client’s witnessed pieces.

Chris Morales certified the piece (below).

Despite Upper Deck’s guaranteed “5-step patented hologram process,” a Chris Morales certificate seems to doom practically anything JSA sees.

Other witnessed pieces did not fare any better, like the below Bret Michaels signed guitar.

Chris Morales certified the piece as authentic.

One of our associates made an appointment with JSA in a hotel conference room after one of their trade shows. There were several clients there, all getting individualized attention from JSA.

An individual who Larry Studebaker told our associate was a “regular client” also had a Bret Michaels signed piece. Studebaker told our associate he was not comfortable with the guitar. Larry Studebaker pointed out that the “regular client’s” piece looked “completely different” than our associate’s, so obviously his was a forgery and the regular client had a genuine piece, which JSA certified as genuine.

The problem?

We know Bret Michaels of the group Poison signed and personalized our associate’s guitar. You can even see the inscription in the photo. If the “regular client” had a piece that looked completely different from our associate’s, and we have pictures of Bret Michaels signing and posing with ours, shouldn’t the piece that looks completely different from the guitar be the one JSA failed?

Apparently, JSA did not think so. As a matter of fact, when you look at the following JSA report, in the descriptive box, JSA even referred to Chris Morales’ report in the text describing the type of guitar. What was JSA examining, the signature or Chris Morales’ certificate?

Incidentally, JSA also criticized, among the other issues, the fact that the “Ink doesn’t have characteristics normally found with naturally aged ink”. This is quite a perplexing criticism, when one considers the fact that Bret Michaels is still alive and, theoretically, could have signed the guitar the very day that JSA looked at it. How is ink currently on the market used by living people – possibly really recently – supposed to age?

Interestingly enough, our associate witnessed some disturbing behavior during his visit with JSA. Another of the “regular” clients came with a stack of 40-50 photos. Larry Studebaker had the photos in a pile on his table. They were upside down. The photo side with the signature was on the bottom. While Larry Studebaker chatted with the regular client, he placed a JSA on the back of each photo – without even turning them over – and passed them on to his associate to process. He did not even look at any of the photos, but they were all certified by JSA.

Apparently, being a “regular customer” of JSA has its perks.

One afternoon, James Spence had the opportunity to show whether or not his practices detailed throughout the story above were an anomaly or standard JSA operating procedures.

James Spence sat down with a collector and briefly looked through a collection of baseballs. Prior to his examination, he was informed that all of the baseballs had been certified by Chris Morales.

You guess right. Everything failed.

Were the baseballs bad?

One of the three photos below is of JSA certified baseball B91695. One of the baseballs below is of JSA certified baseball B81823. The other baseball was one of the baseballs that James Spence said was a forgery, after he had been informed that Chris Morales had certified it.

They are in no particular order. We defy you to figure out which one is the “forged” baseball. To make this more like a pop quiz, we have removed the photo of the “forged” baseball from JSA’s report. Can you tell which one is the failed ball? Can anyone justify that one of these was written by anyone other than the signer of the other two?

James Spence told the collector that everything he had were “fakes and frauds.” He further told him that he should get his money back ASAP.

At the very least, the preceding test cases question the company’s ability to carry out the service of authentication. In each of the above test cases it was found JSA failed the same pieces that they had already certified as authentic. It certainly lends credence to the assertion the company will fail anything that has previously been certified by any other forensic examiner. This includes a piece, the Joe Frazier trunks, that was signed in front of them.

What then is a JSA certification worth if their own authentication standards are disingenuous, capricious, and arbitrary?

Considering the work that James Spence and his staffers do, and their apparent combined bias and indifference to the genuineness of the memorabilia they are charging customers to examine, there is a problem with “fakes and frauds.” If James Spence and his staffers want to determine where the source of such “fakes and frauds” are, they might want to start by looking in a mirror. In closing I am not a real big Chris Morales fan but the customer has the right to have the signature examined. When JSA tells a customer or client that an autograph is not authentic, they trust that it has been examined. As you can see that’s not the case, in fact it’s just plain dishonest.

POSTED BY SIGNATURE ARTS, INC. AT 1:44 PM

6 COMMENTS:

 

RobertFebruary 22, 2011 at 6:57 AM

Great blog. I have had nothing but problems with Spence. I have a signed Aerosmith guitar that was signed at a radio station. I actually have pics of them signing it in 1990. I won it in a charity event done by the station. I sent it to Spence and they said it was not authentic. It had 8 characteristics that they did not like. I’m so pissed!!

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BillyDecember 18, 2011 at 2:10 PM

Yeah, I just went to a show in Rosemont, IL a month ago. I got Ryne Sandberg’s autograph (in person) and when I brought it to the Spence table, the dude barely glanced at it before attaching the sticker…..

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UnknownAugust 31, 2012 at 9:19 AM

The problem is that people won’t buy non certified autographs even when we know they were signed in person. So we rely on these authenticators to give us certification so potential buyers trust the item. In in my way to spence now to get a Seaver autograph certified. He signed the bat in front of me but people won’t consider buying it from me without it having been authenticated. So I’m taking a chance.

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unique n tonedSeptember 3, 2012 at 10:15 PM

Ive been in the collectibles market for many years.in my opinion,if anyone shows a signed anything to a “certifier” and they dont pull out a refrence book with in person authentic signatures,the opinion from them is garbage.there is no way,anyone in the world,can remember every single stroke from every famous person without some type of refrence.so if they just look and say fake,their fake.even medical professionals have to refer to history.great proof of calling someone out.i enjoyed the write up a lot.i found this writeup,because i never heard of jsa,now i know why.the piece i was going to buy,looked nothing like all the other autos i have seen from the star i was going to buy,now ill likely pass on the jsa stuff.would be better buying blindly from some shmoe.

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e67f52f8-2771-11e1-891d-000bcdcb2996April 13, 2013 at 5:39 PM

This is why most reputable authenticators use databases with templates of the various signatures as a person’s signature changes over time and depends on how fast they sign and the circumstances involved.

 

 

JOHN WEITZMANApril 13, 2013 at 5:33 PM

I dont disagree with you about James Spence,one reason he is no longer with PAS/DNA.

He has done this a lot on any item authenticated by another third party.

see autographalert.com

However I would not use Chris Morales as an example, he has been under investigation by the FBI for fraud himself.

 

The Blacklist – Known Fakers

Here is a small list of sellers/websites known to sell fake merchandise.

EBAY SELLERS:

1977721 Lee

Nostalgiabilia

trainer 37

babyboy37

The Duckwall

hometh8rfx

blockbusterpremieres

Cards n Comics Wizard

R & R Auctions

mr_entertainment_2008

Signaposter

Marcobukowski

Autograph Movie Posters

VP398

globalvia

Maximum Memorabilia

Star * Signed

Serena Morgan

Box Office Hits

 

WEBSITES:

———-

FILM FANATIX (THIS IS EBAY USER globalvia)

http://filmfanatix143.ecrater.com

———————–

BLOCKBUSTER
MEMORABILIA, LTD

URL CHANGES OFTEN

————

ALL ITEMS FROM

Ne Autographs
http://www.neautographs.com
514 West 14th Street
New York, NY 11415

Quick Questions Answered.

Why is your service free?

We are collectors and fans of films and movies.  We do not do this for the financial gain, only to protect other fans.  With this in mind are time is precious and if you have several items to authenticate, need a replacement COA, need a rush authentication or any other non-standard request there is a small fee involved.

What do you mean rush?

Since our services is free in generally takes about 2 weeks to process a free request, if you need a rush authentication the fee for this is $14.00 and will be done in 2 days or less.

What if my item comes back as non genuine?

Please keep in mind that out authentication is only our opinion and there is a slight chance we are wrong; however, 99% of the time it is relatively easy for us to confirm.  If your item comes back as non genuine it is entirely up to you if you wish to keep the item or seek a refund from your seller.

Why is there not much here?

We keep it simple to focus on the work, we are not making money so we are not spending money on website design, posting, server fees, as that would force us to charge fees.

What items do you sell?

We do not sell autographed items.

What can I expect to come back?

Our grading is in 3 categories

Authentic – it is our opinion your item is 100% authentic

Inconclusive – We can not say with 100% certainty if the item is authentic or non authentic. (this could be due to smudges, fast signings, etc..)

Not Genuine – it is our opinion that the autograph is not genuine

Can you help me any other way?

Some good guidelines to keep in mind is that if there is a seller with 10 items that are exactly the same there is a good chance that they are not genuine.

If they are signed at a table it is more likely that the star take there time and the autographs will be neat and tidy.

If it is a bigger item, such as a poster, it is normal to expect some wrinkles and slight marks from being transported.

We are always happy to answer any questions you have for us.

Authentication Service

It’s a service provided by the RICA Autograph, that enables you to get an opinion from our forensic document examiners as to the genuineness of your item. An Online Authentication is a service that covers the obvious characteristics of handwriting such as letter formations, spacing, slant, line quality, measurement of slant and spacing, patterns, proportions, connections, and the initial and terminal stroke formations, etc.

We do this for the love of the items, we will gladly accept a scan of your item an evaluate it at no cost.  This is not as extensive as hands on authentication but would be willing to have you ship your item to us as well.

How we do this: Like most current authentication we use line matching and we examine each and every component and letter of an autograph, paying close attention to characteristics such as signature flow, style, spontaneity, letter angle, side-by-side comparisons, object evaluation.

We also have many tools at our disposal including a Video Spectral Comparator which uses sophisticated color and infrared imaging, magnification, coaxial lighting, side lighting, and on-screen, side-by-side or overlaid autograph comparisons.

We offer this free service and cut our overhead by using a inexpensive advertising, free web hosting, and word of mouth.  We are a group of over 25 fans of films, with years of authenticating our own items.   Sadly most come back as blatantly fake, this is a necessary evil in the collecting game.  This does not mean the person you obtained it from is at fault, as it has generally been sold to them as well.

We are fans of films and memorabilia  and as such do our very best to keep the quality of this wonderful past time. Because of our specialty in movies and film we cannot not guarantee accurate results with sports or music memorabilia.

Feel free to contact us at AuthRICA@gmx.com